Adrian Savage – Deliverability.info
Adrian is a dad, a geek and an entrepreneur. He left the corporate world 8 years ago and first became an Infusionsoft certified consultant and developer.
He now specialises in email deliverability, having created WeDeliver.Email, a specialist email solution for Infusionsoft, in 2014.
Since then, he’s helped many well-known names improve their email deliverability, inbox placement and audience engagement to help them get their message out more effectively, get more emails opened and ultimately, more sales.
His new free Email Health Check quickly and simply shows you how well your emails are performing. He’s also created Deliverability Defender, an innovative solution that makes it easier to proactively spot deliverability issues and improve your engagement management.
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Shoan 0:01
Hello, and welcome to automation rehab. My name is Shoan Snoday. I’m the voice of automation rehab, and today we have Adrian Savage, the deliver ability expert. How cool is this? on our podcast? Welcome, Adrian. Hey, Shoan How you doing? I’m doing wonderful, man, it’s really great to have you on the podcast. Thanks for showing
Adrian Savage 0:21
me know, it’s really a pleasure to be here.
My dad brought home an apple to computer 1:16
Yeah, I was gonna say, Well, I was born. So that’s kind of easy. I think I’ve been I was born a geek, I just didn’t realize that until my dad brought home an apple to computer when I was about seven or eight years old. I ended up teaching him how to use it. And he was about to throw the thing out the window, I picked up the manuals and said, here’s how you do it. So I’ve been a geek since I was that kind of age. And then did the usual thing that geeks do, they go through the computer science degree, they work for the right software for a living, I kind of escape that and going to telecoms. And that’s where I sat for maybe 10 plus years after university. And I’d probably still be there. Now, if I hadn’t had one of those life changing experiences as you do when my ex wife moved the other into the country with my kids. And suddenly, that was my wake up call. My kids were my everything. And I had to work out how I could continue seeing them and still hold down some kind of job or whatever. So I went from seeing them two or three times a week to every third weekend. And at that point, they were maybe five years old, eight years old. So that was a bit of a killer for me. And that was when we first discovered the whole, not quite, not quite the Tony Robbins side of things. But there’s kind of a sort of slightly smaller scale equivalent that in UK where there was seminars and you know how to quit your job and make lots of money and all that kind of thing. And one of the things I remember from one of those seminars was a guy who said, if you’ve got a strong enough reason why you can do anything. And right there in that moment, I had a massive reason why and that was my kids. So when they started selling all these courses about how to do internet marketing, have the public speaking how to do online marketing, you name it, I signed up for everything. Three months later, I quit my job, I discovered this crazy marketing software called Infusionsoft. And the rest is history. I guess I started applying my kind of Geek Enos to marketing and Infusionsoft and the whole automation thing. And obviously, I really got it started working with some of the big names on the UK public speaking circuit. So that’s how I kind of got into this. So again, you know, think Tony Robbins, but a bit smaller, became really proficient in Infusionsoft. But that doesn’t really set me apart from another, you know, dozen, two dozen people in the UK alone. And you know, around the around the globe, and there’s lots and lots of marketing experts, infusion of experts and like that, but I did quite nicely for a while. And then I kind of discovered this whole email delivery ability thing almost by accident. I lost one Infusionsoft client because all of their emails and going into the spam folder, I couldn’t fix it for them. And then sometime, maybe a few months later, then I had another client where there was a similar problem happening. And this time I vowed to myself, I wasn’t going to lose. By accident, I’d worked out how to solve an email delivery ability problem for someone else where their website emails were going into spam. And I sold it to the websites. And the first because I’ve always been a problem solver. So I just love you know, coming across something and get my teeth into it until I can fix it. So I fix this kind of web problem. And I thought, well, if I can fix problems for websites getting their emails delivered, then surely I can apply the same principles to something like Infusionsoft. Because back then Infusionsoft wasn’t as good as getting emails delivered as they are now. And sometimes just by sending sending emails from Infusionsoft back then people were saying that was the cause of emails going into spam. Now, the good news, coming back to the present day is that isn’t really the case anymore. Infusionsoft does a great job getting emails delivered. But back then there were definitely some issues. And I created some software could effectively hijack the emails as they can have Infusionsoft and reroute them. So they went via this same solution that I’ve used the websites.
So suddenly, that was how I solve this problem for the first client I had. And that was kind of a that was a custom solution that I built back then. But I guess a bit like the story that Dave Bullock shared, where you build a solution for someone, then suddenly you realize that actually, this can help other people as well. And that was kind of how my we delivered on email software was born in the first place. So I kind of got into email delivery ability from a software point of view. But then as time has gone on, we’re talking about four or five years ago now. And in that time, then, firstly, Infusionsoft did a great job making my software almost redundant. Now, that’s not they didn’t set out to beat me if that makes sense. But as soon as I realized that people were paying for extra software to solve a problem with their platform, they suddenly hired some extra people, they started working ferociously on improving their own email deliver ability, that gave me a big insight into Well, what else? What were the other factors around getting emails into the inbox, because there’s lots of misunderstandings out there about what deliverables it is, there’s lots of misunderstandings about
just how you can maximize your, your, your, the emails that you get to the inbox, and so on, and so on.
So as the years have gone on, then I’ve just focused on that more and more. And, you know, maybe a year ago, it was maybe 60%, of what I’m doing. But now we’re at the point where it says maybe 95 97% of what I’m doing is just email delivery ability. And in that time, you know, there’s there’s some real experts out there that I have studied, worked with, learn from, you know, I’m always learning more about this, you know, pretty much every day, there’s something new coming in, because the greatest comparison that I make is with search engine optimization, because obviously, SEO has been around for years and years and years. And have you noticed with SEO, how particularly Google they changed the rules every six months every year or something like that, they’ll give you a big Google update. And suddenly all the different ways that you’ve learned to get your your website on to number one on Google, suddenly, it almost starts from scratch, and you have to relearn the whole thing. And unfortunately, deliver ability and get your emails delivered and getting them into the inbox is becoming a bit like that. Because the whole email world has really changed even the last six months has been big changes. I think it was probably something like March, April this year when there’s a big, you know, big, big storm around I think it was Yahoo emails weren’t getting delivered very well, Microsoft emails weren’t. And every time something like this happens, it’s because the big boys who control a large part of the email market now are changing the rules. You know, we’ve got our friends, the spammers to thank for all this because there’s always people out there that just sending lots and lots of unsolicited junk email promoting, you know, everything from get rich quick to vinaigrette, you name it. And Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, they’re the big three plays in email world, they are constantly investing a whole lot of time a lot of money in making their systems smarter and smarter so they can stay ahead of the spammers.
Shoan 8:15
Now that you’re saying Yahoo is still in the game?
Google, Microsoft and Yahoo are the big three 8:19
Oh, totally. Absolutely. I mean, if you if you look, now, then it’s pretty fair to say that Google, Microsoft and Yahoo are the big three, they’re the ones that have a stranglehold on the world of email. Now, sometimes, they’ll be a particular client, a particular user, something like Infusionsoft or another marketing platform that’s got a slightly different audience. But on the whole, then you’ll find that more than 50% of your email list is going to be made up of Google people, either email addresses that end in Gmail, com, or if it’s someone who’s using g sweet, then that is also Google. Now, of course, it’s not easy to tell if you’re using g sweet because it could be, you know, my, my domain, or one of my sons means a deliverable Etsy dot info. And I just happen to use that with G sweet, but you can’t tell by looking at email address that I’m a G sweet user. So you can’t just go through and say we’ve got all these yahoo.com, and all these hotmail.com, and things like that, because if it’s a business user, they will probably be using something like g sweet or something like office 365. And you have to be a bit clever to work out what particular service they using. Your Google is typically 50 60%, Microsoft can be as much as 20 25%. So that’s Hotmail, that’s outlook.com, office 365. And Yahoo, and even AOL between the two, they will often make up 10 to 15%, or even more of that was someone’s list. So you normally talking, you know, 7580 85%, or more of someone’s list can be just those three providers alone. And then you’ve got all the kind of smaller players after that, but those are the those are big, big, you know, Google’s the big, you know, 1010 gorilla, and then Microsoft and Yahoo aren’t that far behind.
Okay, so when it comes to like, the deliver ability, and we have like, the yahoos and the lives and the Hotmail, and the Microsoft’s, and the emails, and then also like, with mine, I go through my host provider, and then I have that associated with my Gmail. So it’s not really sweet. But it removes a lot of spam. And it might also be removing emails that I’d like to see. I’m not sure, but I doubt it. But as I remember with Infusionsoft, there were two servers, there was this server. And then and and this was in 2013, maybe up we were talking about the server, you know, there’s the ones that sent the emails, and then the ones that sent the personal the one on one emails, and then there’s other ones that did the email broadcast. So that Yeah, it does it do that, or, or does that affect what you’re doing? Or how does that all work?
Email marketing platform will have their own variant 11:04
So yeah, this is this is one of the ways that has really changed, and it’s got a hell of a lot more complex than it used to be. And what I’ll describe here is the way that Infusionsoft does it, but you’ll find that every single email marketing platform will have their own variant of this. Some of them are a lot simpler. Infusionsoft is probably one of the more advanced ones now. And again, like I said earlier, they’ve they’ve really invested the time and money to get to the best place they can with this. So what Infusionsoft does now is they don’t just have two servers anymore, they have got probably dozens of different servers. And each one of those servers will be used for different type of email. But it’s not just based on whether it’s personal or one to one or you know, kind of bulk emails or whatever, what they’ve started to do is they are looking at the content of the man, they’re looking at your reputation, they’re looking at each individual content you’re sending the mail to, and depending on the engagement level of that content, they might even use a different server. So as an example, if you are sending a an email with lots of good content, no spam keywords, and it is going to your most engaged contacts that opens, you know, the last three emails in the last seven days or something like that, then that will go for their kind of 10 out of 10 server, if that makes sense. And then the other extreme is if you got an email that’s got the word Viagra in it, and various other horrible spammy words, and you’re sending it to a content that hasn’t opened anything in three years, then guess what they’ll send that from their one out of 10 server. And it’s no coincidence that they’re that they’re 10 out of 10 servers have a really, really good strong reputation out there. And they one out of 10 servers were effectively You know, they’re labeled with junk. So if you’re, if an email is coming out from the bottom end server, then just but just looking at the reputation, that server, which is one of the factors that say Google and Microsoft and Yahoo will use whether or not hit the inbox, then by sending by the email going from that low reputation, that low quality server, those emails are much more likely to hit the spam folder. And like I said, we don’t know how many we got the 10 out of 10 server, we got one out of 10 server. And I don’t know exactly how many different extreme how many different kind of variants there are in between that, but they’re definitely doing a lot of segregation. And, you know, it’s not just black and white anymore. There’s lots of shades of gray in between.
Shoan 13:32
Right. So, you know, this is interesting. So when I’m writing a, an email, just one thing I can start as a good practice right now, is maybe look at the spam score, as I’m writing the email, I don’t know if they have got. And when I send, put them in again,
The smallest factors 13:52
so they’ve still got you know, and again, there’s all kinds of different tools that can do this, like spam assassin, and there’s Litmus and email checker.com or something? Well, there’s different ways you can do it. And you can see if there’s any particular words we’re using that will jump out and trigger spam, spam triggers. The thing that I’ll stress, though, is that is probably one of the smallest factors these days and get delivered. So I’d say don’t get obsessive about it. But it is definitely worth making sure that you know, is that the word credit if it’s if it’s written naturally, and it sounds like it’s one human talking to another, then it’s pretty cool. As soon as you start getting desperate and putting the word free all over the place. And you know, sounding like a to Bob sales letter written by college. Yeah, then,
You shouldn’t buy an email list 19:48
anytime. And this is why you shouldn’t buy an email list because these addresses will be in there. Anytime you send an email to one of those pristine honeypot addresses, then you’re going to be blacklisted pretty straightaway is one of the bad guys.
Back to Star Wars 20:03
This is great stuff. So if you see an email address on the web, don’t use it because it could be it could be a trap. So go back to Star Wars, it’s a trap. Yeah, avoid, avoid public email addresses on the Internet at all costs, only use opt in email addresses that people are giving to you because otherwise you receive that. And then the second type of spam trap is what’s known as a recycled spam trap. So let’s suppose you close your email account down one day Shoan. And then the next day someone sends you an email, that email is going to bounce they will get there, we’ll get a notification saying this email no longer works. And in theory, you should stop sending an email to that address. But then what will happen by and by the way, you know your email marketing platforms such as Infusionsoft, then they will take that into account, they will automatically remove that email address from the contacts they weren’t email them anymore. And then after about six months, that email address will get re enable. So if you keep mailing to that address, after six months after they’ve been bouncing messages before that, then you’re then hitting a spam drop, because that’s a way of showing that this is someone who doesn’t look after their email list very well. And it’s not quite the same kind of capital crime as email into a pristine spam trap might be, but it still gets you caught out for being one of the guys who hasn’t got some great email practices. And if you email too many spam traps again, you’re going to hurt your domain reputation. Now, the good news is, there’s some ways of avoiding that because there’s various tools that do list scrubbing. And they will actually look at your email database, and they will tell you which email addresses are bad email addresses. So a way of protecting your reputation is to scrub your email list, you know, ideally, every three months, definitely every 12 months to make sure there’s no spam traps in there. If you use a good email scrubbing tools, such as clean 13, which is one that I recommend, and I’ll share some links about that later on. Because I’ve again, I’ve integrated that into Infusionsoft so that you can actually scrub your list for each but a good list scrubbing tool like clean 13, then that will identify things like you know, spam traps, invalid email addresses typos. It also tells you all the sales and info apps and all these other kinds of role based email accounts that you shouldn’t really send marks emails to, they’ve even got a database of serial complainers. You know how I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this shown where someone opts into your list, they download a few freebies and and the opt out reporting for spam A few days later. There’s some people that do that, you know, habitually. Yeah, and the list robbing services will even warn you of that kind of person. So you can decide if you want to keep mailing them or not.
Shoan 22:37
Now, are these people trolls? Or are they doing it on purpose? Are they competitors?
Sometimes you never know 22:44
I would say it’s more likely to be a troll or just someone who just makes a habit of, you know, basically trying to gain the system a bit. But yeah, it could be some bad guys, sometimes you never know. And again, it’s one of those things where I say don’t don’t sweat too much time on this. But again, it’s one of those things that is worth taking into account.
Sender Policy Framework 26:34
Okay, so so that’s the first bit The second one is SPF, which stands for Sender Policy Framework. And there’s been a lot of misunderstanding about this in recent years, because once upon a time Infusionsoft said, you have to set up SPF for your domain. Now things have changed a little bit. So the way I’ll explain it is that every email address, so every email that you send them, an email marketing platform actually contains two different from addresses in there. There’s what’s known as the envelope address. So if you’re sending for Infusionsoft that will always be mailer at infusion, mail.com. And then there’s the kind of the friendly from address which will be shown at show Shoan snoday.com. And the only thing that you need SPF for is the envelope address, okay, which means if you’re using Infusionsoft, then as long as Infusionsoft have set up their SPF record, you don’t need on yourself. And that’s something that has changed in recent years.
You know, it used to support something called Sender ID as well. But that’s all changed. But the bottom line now is for Infusionsoft, you don’t need SPF. But if you’re using g sweet, or if you’re using GoDaddy or you know anything that sends emails direct from you, where the envelope address will be your own Shoan snoday.com, then you need to set up SPF to say that you trust the world to use your Gmail server, your trust the world to send emails from Gmail, or it might be used to help scout for some help their software, any software you’ve got that sends emails, when the envelope addresses from you, then you need an SPF entry for that golden rule is you only have one SPF record, you never have more than one.
The SPF record lists all the different server you trust in one place in one go. You have to be careful, you can’t have more than 10 different DNS lookup within the SPF records as a few little gotchas. But as long as you minimize the number of email systems that you send mail from, you shouldn’t run into that problem. And SPF is important. But you know, certainly using Infusionsoft Active Campaign, or even MailChimp, you probably don’t need SPF for that you only need it for your more personal one to one emails from G sweet or whatever.
Shoan 28:37
Makes sense. Six years ago when I set mine up, like really? Oh,
Google has told the world not to trust any email 28:42
yeah, absolutely. And you know, over the years things have changed, it certainly made more of a difference, then, you know, and I say that it doesn’t hurt to set it up, if you’ve got some spare kind of, you know, space in your SPF record to put Infusionsoft in there. But it’s unlikely to make much of a difference. Deacon is much, much, much more important. Okay. Okay, in in 30 seconds, I mentioned D Mark, which is kind of the next level of authentication, what D Mark does, it tells the world what to do if you don’t pass authentication with either SPF or Deacon. So if you don’t have a D might record nothing happens if you publish a demon record, you can either say do nothing, which seems a bit crazy, or you can say quarantine the emails if they don’t have an SPF or Deacon validation. Or you can tell it to actually silently drop those emails.
So what Google have done as an example is they have published their demon record. So if you send an email from Infusionsoft now with a gmail from address, it won’t get through. Because Google has told the world not to trust any email that hasn’t got that hasn’t come from Google service. So if you get your if you if you use the mark, and you get it wrong, the world will never receive any of your emails. So he’s very careful if you use D Mark, your opinions divided, but it looks like it if you do if you do use the Marquis or slightly improve your delivery ability chances, but it’s not the most important thing. Out of those three, I would say get your DKM. Right, that’s the one that really matters. Okay, um, right, let’s quickly talk about content, because we’re going to lose, we’re going to lose the race to finish by the top of the hour otherwise. So with content is all about what we’ve mentioned already about, you know, make sure the words are sensible. But this is where the Google promotions tab comes in. I won’t talk too much about what that is because most people know about promotions have these days, and most marketers hate it. And what I will say though, is that you can avoid the promotions tab, if your email doesn’t look like a promotion, simple as that. Google has got all kinds of algorithms that that you can’t outsmart if you’re sending out something that sort of motion, they will probably put it in the promotions tab. But if it’s got lots of images, if it’s got lots of links, that looks more like a promotion. So if you want to maximize your chances of hitting the primary inbox, rather than the promotions tab, then what you want to do is minimize the number of images, maybe only have one image in your email, only have one link in your email. And if you follow those two rules, then you’re much more likely to hit the inbox than if you’ve got all kinds of beautiful style emails and all this kind of thing. You know, as a kind of dyed in the wool traditional marketer, I’m not a fan of pretty emails anyway, because plain looking ones convert better. But if you if you really want to another argument to keep your emails play, then avoiding the promotions tab is probably a very good argument to use for that.
Shoan 31:31
So when you say one link, can I have one link multiple times?
Unique tracking link. 31:38
Nope. Because each time you put a link into something like Infusionsoft, it will generate a unique tracking link. And each of those is different, even though it’s going to the same landing, correct. Because one thing is one thing that email providers don’t do is they don’t follow those links when they when they scan your email, because if they did that, it would they would, it would look like every single email was being clicks on. So they can’t follow those things. They have no way of knowing where they where they lead. So if the if the little tracking idea is different in each link, it will look like a different link to Gmail. And they will say, hey, this guy’s got 27 different things in his email. It must be promotion.
Shoan 32:08
So now, here’s one because I was just about to send out like how to do what I have behind me, which is a green screen, obviously. Because, you know, I don’t want to show my mansion. I’d rather or wait a minute. I’m on my yacht. I’m just kidding. But uh, but the thing is, I was about to send out an email. And it’s like, here’s where you can buy the lights. Here’s where you can buy the green screen. Here’s where you can find out how to do this in zoom. And here’s where to buy a microphone, like all of the thing, how to set up a podcast? Would it be best if I just made data PDF uploaded onto my host? Right? And then has been one link saying please here to download? Yeah. Okay. And they’ll have a better deliver ability?
Signposting 33:05
Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, because the thing is, sometimes if you don’t email newsletters, things like that, it’s still okay to have more than one link in there. But the more you can minimize it, the better. And obviously, as marketers, we like measuring things. And if you give someone three calls to action in the same email, they’ll probably get confusing for none of them. So I say in those cases, if you’ve got multiple topics, maybe split them into multiple emails, or like you said, they’re sending to a PDF or sent to a blog post or something like that, where they can have a bit more signposting. The fewer links, you got an email, the better without a shadow of a doubt.
Three calls to action? 33:38
Well, I put in three calls to action, but it’s the same as like, get the info here is more like the Frank Kern thing. You know, you’re here to get it. Oh, did I say this? pS? Oh, by the way, you know, yeah.
A nice big orange button 33:50
So you know, the one thing that I will stress here is that every audience is different, every email is different. So certainly test this stuff. But what I found works for me personally, live a nice big orange button, someone email with my call to action. And then as I go through elsewhere, I’ll say, go back and click that orange button. So I’m kind of repeating the call to action, but rather than doing the link, I’m just sending them back to that. One. Yeah, absolutely. Now, obviously, you know, that’s, that’s always you know, getting people to scroll is never gonna be quite as good. So you got to test. Right? Absolutely. Because how many opens might you lose by going to promotions versus how many conversions might you lose if you don’t repeat that call to action?
Set up a rule 37:14
what if someone likes my stuff, and they go, Okay, I moved into the folder, oh, here’s another one, I moved it to the folder, I’m just going to set up a rule to where that email comes in, and it goes straight to the folder does that have any effect that you know,
Google’s concerned that nobody likes your stuff 37:29
as long as they open it still occasionally, then it helps. And also, in some ways, if you set up a rule to set as long as you’re not setting up a rule descended to the spam folder. Again, that’s telling Google that someone likes your stuff. So bad thing. So they, I guess it stands to reason that if you’re sending out 10,000 emails, and only 50 people open those emails, that’s pretty, pretty good indicator, as far as Google’s concerned that nobody likes your stuff. And I’m the same way, if you’re sending out 10,000 emails, 9000 people over there, and that’s a pretty good indicator that everyone does love your stuff. Right. So that is one of the biggest indicators that Google uses. Now to decide whether you’re one of the good guys or the bad guys, how good is your engagement, how many people are opening your emails, so if you are so supposing you know, German back in the day, where list size was important, you know, and this is this a guy thing that size matters, maybe is I don’t know, I remember back in the day, it was like build a big list, you can and throw as much crap as you can on the wall and see what sticks. And if you try and do that now, then you’re gonna end up with 3% open rate, and you’re gonna end up in the spam folder. So it’s, you know, the one golden rule on you mentioned, white listing that is really important. showing people how to white this to you so that, again, you’re telling the females this world that that you want to receive this stuff that’s really important. But managing your engagement and only sending emails to the people that are opening your stuff is the most important thing you can do to help your reputation. Because if you only got 5%, open rate, that means that 95%, your audience doesn’t like your stuff. And Google is going to decide that you’re sending out a whole load of junk.
Remember that Google and Microsoft with hotmail are in this to make money out of advertising. So they want people to open the emails, so that they can display more adverts and get more clicks. So if you’re sending emails out that don’t get opened, they’re going to hide them in the end. So only send emails to the people that actually open your stuff. I’ll come on to that if we got time in a second. But that’s what engagement is all about. Really, it’s just about making sure that you’re managing what your audience looks like, get rid of the Deadwood, don’t send emails of people that don’t open stuff. And the more engage your audience is, the better you’re going to fare. The thing to bear in mind as well is that you can’t set up test accounts. And assume that whatever you see in your test account is what other people will see. Because the other thing that Google and Microsoft and Yahoo do now bless them is that they tailor the email deliver ability to each individual person. So as an example, someone added me to their mailing list, they scraped my address off LinkedIn, which was very naughty of them. And I don’t recommend that. If you’re going to do it, don’t do what this person then did, which is you just continue to send me unsolicited emails week in week out, and I just ignored every single one of them. And then I realized I hadn’t seen her emails coming for a while and guess what they’d end up in my spam folder. But other people, her email still go into the inbox because they open them, and I don’t. So it’s very much dependent on what your audience does. And that’s why again, you’ve got to persuade them to whitelist you and get them to actually open your stuff. If they don’t open it, then sooner or later, they won’t even see it anymore. So very, very, very important to make sure that you are sending only the emails that people that open them very, very important.
Email deliverables, the audit, where I’ll actually look 41:00
Probably the most important things out of that, as I said is, you know, manager engagements, get people to whitelist you What else we got in there, minimize your links, scrub your list, you know, there’s all kinds of stuff. One of the services that I offer now is an email deliverable, the audit, where I’ll actually look at their, you know, they’re Infusionsoft set up their Active Campaign setup, I’ll look at all their numbers, their stats, everything. And it’s a kind of 35 page report that will analyze everything and give three or four pages of recommendations. And here’s what you need to do to maximize your deliverability. Because there’s just so much in there these days, you know, even someone who’s you know, even someone is doing well can still normally improve their delinquency, poor performance.
Shoan 41:42
So I want to talk about that in a minute. But one question, if I send out an email and I and I go back, if I’m like, just a not a professional, but I’m a user of Active Campaign, Infusionsoft anything, would I go and look at the past emails over the past like few months, see who’s opened them, and then segment them and blast out to them more often to have a health
Full on re-engagement 42:08
totally, that’s that’s exactly it. What I recommend now, if you want to really get the best out of this is work out who’s opened stuff in the last 30 days, and focus on them the most, if someone hasn’t open a single email for 30 days, assuming of sending quite frequently maybe send the reminder that point saying, hey, you still here. So you know, not not necessarily a full on reengagement at that point, but I certainly a little tickle, then you got another batch of people that have opened within last 30 to 90 days and still mail them, but maybe not as often. If they hit 90 days without opening then you go full on reengagement say, hey, do you still want to stay on my list, click here, otherwise, I’m going to ditch you, you know, couple of reminders, if they still haven’t opened or clicked any of those, after 90 days get rid, because they’re not helping you.
They’re just damaging your reputation. And the people that I see doing that most effectively, they’re managing to get an 80% engagement of their audience in the last 30 days. And that’s probably the biggest way that I measure that. I’ve got this free what is free tool now called the email health checker. And that will give you an email in our health score of 100. And what that’s looking at is how well have you engaged over the last year over the last 90 days over the last 30 days, how many of your audience is opening something in that period. And if it’s a low number, you get a low score, if the high number you get high score, and I’ve got people that are managing to get 70 to 80% of their audience opening something in the last 30 days consistently?
Go from 10 to 80%? open rate in less than 30 days? 43:34
Do you have a headline for like an article that you wrote, like, go from 10 to 80%? open rate in less than 30 days?
Every single platform is slightly different43:42
I don’t yet but I will do soon. Because this is you know, as I mentioned, before we went live, I’m launching a whole new set of tools and services, things like this to make it easier for people to do this. Because there’s two parts of the education bit of shared knowledge, just how do we make it as easy as possible for people to do this without to spend hours and hours building custom searches and doing this and doing that in their email platforms. Because you know, every single platform is slightly different. It’s like, if you wanted to do what we’re describing in MailChimp, then Good luck to you. you know, anything, you know, Active Campaign is better. But that’s got a few issues, Infusionsoft, one of the better tools. But with all of those, then, you know, you still got a bit of work to do. So part of the deliver ability defender software that I’m about to launch, that makes all that lot easier, it will try to be tagged all your contacts correctly, it will report on your open rates. And it will tell you whether you’ve got a whether you had a problem with Gmail versus g sweet versus hotmail versus office 365. So lots of bits of software that can make your life much easier. Because if you particularly got a large audience, then you need to stay ahead of the game, you need to be proactive with this stuff to make sure that you’re not missing a little problem before it turns into a big problem.
Shoan 44:49
Right? So let’s talk about that. But first, you have you said it, like if we come to your website, we can opt out, we can opt in and get some type of lyst 73, checkpoint lyst or somebody said, Okay,
The full audit 45:03
so that’s that’s the full audit, that’s a paid for service that I offer. But the there’s kind of there’s there’s three levels of this, there’s the full audit, and that’s the one where you know, it’s a good few hundred dollars, I’m putting the price of that up all the time. And it takes a lot of time, and people are getting massive value out of that. And you don’t need that to make a big difference. But it certainly helps a light version of that, which is just sharing the numbers. So you can kind of draw your own conclusions. But the but the freebie that I’d recommend everyone does, particularly if you’re using infusions off an Active Campaign, because those are two platforms I support right now. And I’m adding others in as we go, then this free email health check. And that will look at your engagement and look at a few other bits and pieces inside your Infusionsoft your Active Campaign account. So you just you know, set up the API, so I can pull a bit of data out. And then I’ll give you this email health score out to 100. Were kind of 90 above is excellent. At is good. 60 to 80 is OK. And below 60, you’ve got a problem. Are you
Shoan 45:58
saying that one is free?
A little thermometer 46:00
Yeah, that’s totally free. If you got a big list, it takes a few minutes to run because obviously going to do a bit of analysis, then you get a nice simple dial is it just looks like a little thermometer thing either points into the red or the green or the yellow or whatever. And it will tell you how good you are right now. And then I’ve got some more educational pieces that I can be sharing as part of that. So that again, if people don’t want the audit, or they don’t want it done for them, then they can learn what’s important work through that. So you know, as I said at the start, this is like 95 97% of what I’m doing now. So the idea is to share as much information as I can empower people as much as I can. And obviously get the software working to make people’s lives easier as well.
Shoan 46:35
So let’s talk about this software that you’re launching, what is it called? And how does it work? And how do we
Report on your email open statistics 46:41
Okay, so this is deliverable defender. And the idea behind this is that it’s a proactive tool. So the first thing it does is every single day, it will tag every single contact inside your database, so that you can understand very quickly and easily how engaged or unengaged they are. So you can say right, I just want to send all of my emails to everyone who’s in in the last seven days, or the last 30 days, or everyone who’s only engaged in the last 30 to 90 days, there’s always different thresholds, and it will do that every single day. And the other thing it does, that’s really cool. I don’t think you can do as well, a lot of work in any of these platforms, is when you get a new contact that opt in. If they haven’t opened anything in the first two days, the first five days or the first seven days or whatever, it will tag them as well. Because if a contact doesn’t open an email in the first 14 days, they will probably never open anything. If someone opts in for lead magnet, you want them to open that thing. And if they don’t have to 14 days, you probably want them off your list because that again, they’re damaging your reputation. So it will tag those people. So you can give them maybe a little bit of an extra Chase. And then after 14 days, maybe we just get rid. So there’s the tagging side of things. And that’s really, really cool, because it’s you know, like I said, some of it you can do in your email platform already. But this makes it much easier. And it automates it does it every single day. You can use that to trigger things like automated list hygiene, automated reengagement, anything you want, really when they reach a certain threshold. So that’s the first part of it.
And then the second part, there is a reporting function. This is going to run every single week, week in week out, and it will report on your email open statistics. But it won’t just say your open rate was 18.3%, it will say your average rate across everything was 18.3%. But your Gmail open rate was 21%, or G sweet open rate was 26%. But older, your Hotmail open rate is 9%. So you’ve obviously got a problem with Microsoft right now. So it allows you to identify where the problems in your audience are. And I’ve still got my old redelivered or email tool as well, that fits into the mix here. So occasionally, you might find that meeting specific segments of your audience for a different route might make a difference. But more often than not, I’m still finding that the engagement that makes the biggest difference, but all those things that this this is version one of the defenders software, by the way, beyond that, I’m gonna be adding to this, if people know what I’ve done with my the software like we deliver, like invoicing, I’m always working on this stuff. So whatever features people suggest, then I’m going to be adding those so go version one is going to do those two really cool things.
But I’ve already got some some more requests for things like tagging customers. So we don’t delete customers by accident. Maybe also a kind of save delete option, where I’ll tag all the contacts that need to be deleted saying check these out, and then maybe seven days later, delete them. But you know, really, the sky’s the limit with this stuff. I’ve got a whiteboard that just covered with ideas that people keep sharing with me. And, you know, just always looking to add as much value as I can to the community. Because for me, it’s just how so how can we make things as easy as possible?
Shoan 49:37
So one of the things on there, so when you say delete art, are you setting them as unmarketable? Or are you actually removing the lead from the
Explain the pros and cons 49:47
I will give people the option. It depends on the platform. Sometimes you like Infusionsoft, they charge you for every single contacts. And if you’ve got 20 or 30,000 contacts that have unsubscribed or you have not them as no longer marketable, that might costing too much money, and you might want to cut your this down. I was certainly not advocate deleting data. And so you’ve really got to, you know, you could either pop them out, or you could just tag them saying don’t market to them. So I will I will explain the pros and cons to people and give them an option. Because one thing to bear in mind is if you unsubscribe or contacts are suppose you unsubscribe, 10,000 contacts, if you change your mind and want to mail them again, you have to have them back in one at a time, Infusionsoft will never ever let you bulk re subscribe them. So you’ll be very careful if you’re deleting and subscribing because it is kind of a one way process.
Here’s my credit card 50:34
Right? Okay, cool. Yeah, because one of the things I have a client that is they get a lot of opt ins, but then they need to call them like they’re called that. They’re like, they’re not going to really do the reengagement thing with LO per se because it’s, you know, it’s a $6,000 thing. A lot of people don’t want to pay six grand, you know, like, Oh, I just went through a funnel, here’s my credit card, you know, they’ll pay two grand through the funnel, but then we call them with a four grand upsell to buy the complete package since Yep. So that that’s one scenario. So then Now how would we find you? How would we get the the free things really interesting, I’m sure a lot of the people on the podcast would definitely want to get that opt in to your list. And then I know that you are launching this. So there’s going to be a lot of people that are going to want to buy in and get your services, your paid services. So how would they find you that way?
Easy delivery ability 51:35
Okay, nice and easy. And I’m kind of funneling everything towards this. So the website is deliver ability dot info, OU London, nice and easy delivery ability dot info is having a little bit of a housecleaning at the moment. But the idea when I finished it is it’s going to be a bit of a signpost Do you want the free health check, then go here to learn about audits go here, you want to learn about the kind of education videos I’ve got go here. I don’t do much done for you services that other guys out there. You know, Evan Samui is probably the best guy in Infusionsoft world who actually does one on one consulting with people. And I do a little bit of that, but I prefer to work on the software, things like that. But I’ll be all kind of, you know, options for resources like that as well. So depending whatever people want, then if I can help, great, but there’s lots of other great people out there as well. And like I said, unlike to empower people, you know, either, you know, other consultants to do more, or, you know, get the engineers themselves do as much as possible as well,
Shoan 52:31
since deliver ability dot info, Is there like a special that you’re running right now, or there an early bird? Are you doing just a,
We’re still going strong 52:40
so there is going to be a launch offer for the defender software. So regular price is only $49 a month for 99. For the year, I haven’t worked out the exact pricing yet. But there’s going to be a lifetime launch offer where you sign up, it’s going to be something north of $1,000. But for that you will get access to the software life. Now, what does life mean? Well, I can promise it will mean at least three years, I’d like to think is a lot more we deliver I did a lifetime watch off of that four and a half years ago, and we’re still going strong. So you know, I’m not some guy who just kind of disappears overnight. This is something where the idea is just to you know, had lots of value. So that launch off was going to be there. Probably we know we’re in September now and just put the launch I was bringing to go through kind of September, October time, I might limit it to the number of people or something like that. But that’s going to be there. And you know, yet things might change as we go because hey, this is marketing and technology and everything can change. But that’s that’s how he’s looking at the moment. But you know, whatever offer is there, then it’s going to be on the deliver ability dot info site. So that’s the place to go look.
Shoan 53:45
Okay, great. Well, we’re at the top of the hour. So what are some ways that people can find you besides deliver ability dot info.
Adrian Savage co.uk. 53:52
Okay, so Facebook is probably the best place to find me such as facebook.com slash Adrian Doc Savage. My email address, if you want to get in touch with Adrian at Adrian Savage co.uk. Or you could even use Adrian at livability dot info, either those will reach me. And those are probably the best best, I don’t do too much of the social media because otherwise, I’d have no time to do any coding because as a geek, most of this stuff is still coded by me at the moment that is going to change in the future. But those are the main places to get hold of me on hang out on Facebook, most Facebook Messenger is a good way to get quicker response to the email definitely.
ADRIAN Savage everywhere Facebook 54:29
So you can find them at Adrian that’s Adrian with two ways ADRIAN savage everywhere Facebook, and or you can email Adrian at deliver ability dot info, but definitely, as you’re listening to this podcast, make a note of it, or right now go to deliver ability dot info, and just you’ll see various ways to access certain information. But you’re definitely gonna want to look at your list, see what’s been open, what’s not been open, go through the free process right now. Make sure that you’re getting in front of more people and that you’re not going to the spam filter. That’s the most important
Shoan 55:12
Through Adrian will be in touch with you on how to get either his lifetime value or how you can get a special and get an audit that will help your business grow. And here’s the real simple thing. Just by having a cleaner list. You’re going to start making more money. So definitely check out Adrian at deliberate ability dot info. Absolutely. And I want to thank you for showing up for the podcast.
Adrian 55:38
Now. It’s been a blast. I really enjoyed it. Really. Thank you very grateful for the invitation. Thanks.
Shoan 55:43
Okay, we’ll talk to you soon.
Adrian 55:45
Great stuff. Take care.
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