Tyler Garns – Box Out Marketing
Widely regarded as “the original Infusionsoft Ninja,” Tyler Garns is an award-winning, world-renowned
marketer who has played a major role in the development of automated internet marketing campaigns since the early 2000s.
From 2007 to 2012 he led the marketing team as a Vice President at Infusionsoft, taking the company from 300 leads per month to over 25,000 leads per month— helping to double its annual sales
on three separate occasions.
In 2014 he founded Box Out Marketing (B.O.M.), a top Infusionsoft agency that provides training, coaching, strategy and digital marketing campaign implementation to entrepreneurs and small
business owners.
Tyler has been sought after by some of the big names in the marketing industry including Frank Kern, Perry Marshall, and Brendon Burchard.
He is a regular speaker at marketing events around the world including GKIC InfoSummit, GKIC SuperConference, Trac and Conversion Summit, Perry Marshall’s Adwords Master Event in Maui, Frank Kern’s Operation Total Freedom Event, ICON, Ramon Ray’s Small Biz Technology Tour, Infusionsoft’s Small Business Success Tour (8 Cities), Inbound Summit, JJ Virgin’s Mindshare Summit, MarketingProfs and SuccessCon.
With a degree in human biology, Tyler takes a scientific approach to marketing and combines it with the “art” of messaging and persuasion.
Bringing these disciplines together has created impressive results for his clients, earning him a 5-star reputation industry-wide. Having worked with thousands of entrepreneurs for over a decade, Tyler has become the go-to resource for those who are ready to take their business to a whole new level.
A Southern California native, Tyler is a dedicated husband and father of four, as well as an avid surfer and church leader. One of his greatest passions is to help fellow entrepreneurs succeed at levels they
hadn’t thought possible
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Shoan 0:43
Yeah, thank you for showing up. This is so great, you know, so much good things about you. Just to brag a little bit about you. I mean, I know you believe in a higher power, and so do I and, and I actually have done some work for you. And it was so weird, because you were looking for someone in North County, and you put a Facebook post out there. And I just happened to be looking at Facebook at that exact time. And then you’re like, you have to be in North County, San Diego, and I’m like, I’m in North County. And then you were like, Can you show up and a half hour I mean, that was know, if God doesn’t exist, then I don’t know how that happens. I was just a magical and a blessing in my life. And, and and that’s just one side thing. But you know a little bit about Tyler gardens he, you know, took Infusionsoft from just a few employees, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of employees from just a few leads under 500 leads a month to 10s of thousands of leads a month, doubled their business multiple times. Just an amazing marketer and executive and family man. And you’ve worked with some of the biggest names in the marketing space. People like Frank Kern, Perry Marshall, Brendan Bouchard, have you spoken from some of the biggest stage in a matter of fact, you know, the grandfather of Internet Marketing, Dan Kennedy spoke with him multiple times, and just all over the place. And you were actually served the Masters event in Maui. Is that true? Or, oh, you spoke at the AdWords pastors. So okay, well, um, so yeah, we’re going to go over the seven questions from success. But before we get into that, just tell us a little bit you know, about like, did you have a how’d you get into this? Did you have like a personal mission? and something happened? And then you became a you got into this marketing? Or how did that all start?
I just I love to learn 2:46
Not really, really wasn’t that intentional? Yeah, I was pre med in college, planning on going into medical school. While I was in college, I got a job at an internet startup. And just so happens that some of the people that were there, quite mask, Dave Lee, Eric Martin know, Jeff mask, etc. That was in 1999 2000 2001, right around that area. Of course, 2001, the bubble burst. We all went our different ways. And, and then, of course, Eric, and Scott started, you know, business back then became infusion soft, they brought in clay, and then they kind of started recruiting all the old crew back. And so in the middle there, I did pharmaceutical sales for a little while, and then got back involved with Infusionsoft when they started bringing the team back together. And, and yeah, that’s just kind of how it went. And all that time, even when I was in pharmaceutical sales, I was still doing a lot of kind of Internet Marketing style stuff on the side, learning web development, and PHP and all kinds of different things. I just I love to learn. So I’m always teaching myself new stuff. So that’s what I was doing during those, those times. Yeah.
Not everyone can go through that kind of experience 6:02
Yeah, so when I left Infusionsoft, one of the things I was really intent on figuring out was, how do we get people to have success with growing their business and, you know, with marketing, without them having to have years and years of marketing experience, and, you know, crazy experience, like I had an infusion soft, and I just felt like I was drinking from a fire fire hose just learning so much every day. Not everyone can go through that kind of experience. So how do we get them to the point where they can make the right kinds of decisions and and have the success that they want. Without that experience? That was kind of my you know, what, when I underlying goals, and it’s taken me a long time, truthfully to figure out I mean, I’m set going on seven years now running my own business, and we we’ve got it figured out. So that’s really, really exciting. Somebody we’ve been using internally with our account managers for a while, because again, same problem, we hire account managers who don’t have the experience I have, but I want them to do a really, really good job for our clients. And so we’ve created this framework for them to follow. Yeah, the idea is that no matter where you’re at whatever challenge you’re having, in your business, you’re never further than seven questions away from success, right? And if you just ask the right questions, and you know, what questions to ask after you ask the right questions, then you’ll get to the right answer. See, most people just try stuff, you know, like, oh, shoot, you know, I’m going caches my, let’s just run a promo, or let’s just do whatever or I went to a conference, and I heard about some funnel that some guy ran and made a million dollars, and I’m just gonna run that funnel. And those are usually the wrong things to do. And you gotta understand your business, and what the things are, and then you can make the right decisions. So we have this kind of algorithm, this whole process to follow these questions, come up with the right answer.
Shoan 17:15
Yeah. So what are the multiple levels of like, do you have bundles? Or do you have I know you have a membership site? Is that still rocking? or?
You put in a request, our team builds it 17:25
Yeah, absolutely. So we have our our first level, which is success lab at $150 per month, that gives you access to our courses, our Facebook group, as well as our weekly Open Office calls. And so you can get on and get help in a in a group setting. But really, it’s one on one help on those calls, that’s kind of the the entry level, right, then we have $500 a month, where you basically just get more of that kind of group access. So now three times a week, you can get on with someone to get help in a group setting, get access to a few more courses and things like that, at $1,000 a month is where we start doing services for you. So this is what we call our unlimited Infusionsoft implementation package. So at $1,000 a month, you can put in all the requests that you want for Infusionsoft work to get done. And our team will do it for you. So if you’re familiar with design pickle, it’s kind of the same model, you put in a request, our team builds, it comes back to you, if you’re approved, then you can put in another request, you can have one request in at a time, most campaigns take us a day to three days to build. And so we just build your campaigns for you do all the work for you. And then you can get on those group all need some additional help to wire stuff up? Or how does this work? How do I connect it and all that kind of stuff? We don’t write copy at that level? At $3,000 a month is full service. That’s copywriting design, landing pages, everything.
Shoan 20:39
oh. So then with the, with the funnels and the bottlenecks. Now, this is the important part. Because sometimes, like someone listening to the podcast right now, they’re probably listening for that one nugget that they can actually go and say, you know, what, this is why I listened. This is the one nugget I need. And now I can just go do it and take care of it. And maybe call Tyler later. But um, what are some of the common bottlenecks that companies run into? That You Might that you might be able to bring to light in their business? Just some that you run into over and over again?
Fanatically track your numbers 21:17
Yeah, generally, they’re they’re all over the place, I’ll share with you kind of the top two or three. But the one thing I would say that everybody should start doing right now, is they should be fanatically tracking their numbers, right, I always tell people look, the numbers will tell you what you should do. So you can hand me any business on the shown and if I can see the number of visitors to the website, leads that are opting in, how many are converting to an opportunity or sale, how many convert to the next sale, how many referrals you’re getting, etc. If I can see all those key numbers, then I can come up with a diagnosis pretty quickly for where we should focus and what the next structure move should be. Right? So that’s super, super important. And the more a business owner gets comfortable and familiar with the numbers in their business, those those key numbers, you know, there’s some others you want to track as well. But that’s kind of the high level, you know, set of numbers that you got to know, the more you know those numbers and the more intimately familiar you are with them, the more quickly you’re going to be able to adjust and adapt when you do hit those bottlenecks. So anyways, to answer your question more directly, though, the the common things that we see are the offers terrible, right? You can have, okay, copy. And if the offers great, it’ll still work. Okay, right, you can have a rough checkout process. But if the offer is killer, people will go through the hoops and they’ll check out right. So if the offer isn’t just super, super sexy, then that’s going to be a big, big problem. And that applies for the sales offer, as well as for the opt in offer. And that’s another area where you see like, everyone puts up their like 47 page ebook, and I’m so friggin tired of ebooks. Yeah, an E book, I don’t want to sit and read all this information. What I do is give me the answer. Just give me the silver silver bullet, right. So whether it’s a checklist, or you know, process or a three step video, or whatever, just tell me the three things I need to do to get success, you know, whatever that might be, right. And so people need to get a little bit better at creating good lead magnets that are sexy for people that offer, you know, a good benefit. You know, and and it feels easy to get that benefit. If it feels like I gotta read 47 page ebook, and I gotta understand everything about you know, the industry, then I’m just not going to do it.
Double the size of your business 29:11
Yeah, and you have a lot of experience with, with when you were at Infusionsoft helping them double the size of their business, you know, going from 00 to 100 million, I’m sure that you’ve learned quite a lot to wear when it comes to small business. One thing I like most about you, and what we’re talking about is the bottleneck here is you’ve probably worked with some real big huge challenges at the corporate level with a room full of people where there’s this bottleneck, you know, the solution, but you need to, and I don’t want to use the word politic, but you need to talk in a specific way to where people can see that your solution is the right one. And having that talent at that level, and then bringing it to small business, and just saying, look, I bending here on a huge scale. Now we’re just going to scale it down to this. And this is how you’re going to increase your lifetime value. I mean, that’s just, you know, that’s worth its weight in gold, you know, when, in my opinion, some of the things with the lifetime value, do you build any certain campaigns for them? Or do you have that discussion where it’s like, well, here’s the bottleneck, and then this is what you can do to fulfill that.
Attack those opportunities 35:07
So yeah, the first thing that we do when we bring on a new client is we go through an onboarding process and that is, you know, first pulling all the data. Second, getting on a call with the client going through all the data and developing that six month plan, you know, hey, here are the opportunities that we see based on you know, what you’re paying, here’s what are the things that we can do during that time to attack those opportunities. And they’re also going to the account manager is going to invite our client to do some messaging research so we always tell our clients look you know, we can build fancy funnels all day long, that’s fine we typically don’t do them super fancy we do them simple, it’s simple works better. But you know building stuff doesn’t isn’t what creates results. The copy is what’s going to create results. And so in order for our copywriters to know the right kind of copy the right message, the right tone, etc. We need the client to do a little bit of research. And so we have our clients, call some of their past customers ask a specific series of questions. And then give us all that data that goes directly to our copywriters, our copywriters then create what we call a messaging and positioning compass. It’s basically kind of a framework and a foundation for all the copy. And then they go about writing the copy for whatever campaign get built.
Put together the whole campaign 39:17
Yeah. You know, one of the things that that I find really fascinating is, when I did some work with Brendan Bouchard, and did some work with Frank Kern, and both of those situations, and many others actually. Turns out these guys, they know their stuff, like not just the marketing side, but they they know the technical side of things. So when I worked with Brendan, he was having me work on a one click upsell process, and I got into the code, and I was digging through it. And I started asking him like, hey, so where did this code come from? He’s like, Oh, I wrote it, like I did it. Same thing with Frank, like Frank can get in and do some basic, you know, stuff, no problem. Like these guys. The reason they’re so good at what they do is because they they’ve been in the trenches, doing the work, like they don’t just assign it all out, whatever. And, of course, now at the level that they’re at, they’re not writing the code, they’re not doing all the stuff. But in the early days, they figured it out themselves. And the lesson to be learned there, like when you understand all of your tech, all the marketing, everything from the ground up, it does help you be a little more powerful in in what you can do. It also allows you to move faster in some situations, like, Hey, I just need to get this done. I need to get it tonight. Get it done tonight, I don’t have time to go hire someone to wait and whatever. So they’re their action takers, right. Um, but just a couple of other specific things. Like when I was working with with Frank on a campaign that he was doing, it was really cool, because he was leaving on vacation, he had promised his wife that he would not take a computer, and that he would be offline the whole time when they went to Italy. And so the whole goal was, hey, let’s set up this campaign that’s going to run automatically while I’m gone. And when I come back, there will be lots of money in my account, right. So that was kind of the idea. And it was great. It was awesome. Like we sat down, we kind of skimmed the whole thing, planned it all out, put together the whole campaign, he wrote the copy. You know, I built everything in Infusionsoft, we launched it. And then just like you kind of always do, we crossed our fingers when he hopped on the plane and left, and I just sat there and watched the dashboard. And sure enough, it works. So those moments are always cool. When when you get to kind of get into the details and plan things out and and then see the success really within days.
Experience in running events 47:17
Yeah, thank you. Um, well, you know, Infusionsoft ran a user conference for the Infusionsoft audience for about 10 years. And then they decided that they want to just focus on the software, and they weren’t going to be doing events anymore. And so they canceled icon. And at that moment, we were in the process of planning our own event anyways. And so then we just kind of pivoted real quickly, and said, All right, we’re just going to take over the user conference void, we created success, con, and we launched the event. Luckily, it’s been a real community effort, you know, we reached out to all the other partners, is it, hey, we’re going to do this, you know, will you sponsor will you help and all that kind of stuff, we come and speak. And everyone’s been so great, and really been a big part of it. So the great community around Infusionsoft is, is the main reason that that has gone well. The other reason I’d say it’s gone well is because when I was at Infusionsoft, my team and I used to run success con or infusion con, call back then. And so I’ve had a little bit of experience in running that event for a few years. So I knew kind of the basics of what would make it a good event and how to put it together and some of the some of the tips around, you know, negotiating with hotels, and AV companies and all that kind of stuff. So that that’s partly why it all came together. But the most important thing is just a comedian. But chairs, yeah, the challenge is running an event is is no joke. And the biggest challenge is probably cash flow, right? Because you have to put up a lot of cash initially, to contract the hotel to reserve rooms to get you know, food and beverage organized. to contract and AV company. You got to put up all that cash before you’ve collected anything sponsorships, ticket sales, all that kind of stuff. So you it’s a it’s a real big risk that you gotta take before, you know if it’s going to pay off. And so that’s, that’s the biggest challenge truthfully, other than that has been great. You know, all the logistics are always a challenge when you’re running an event. But that’s where you get a good event planner and have them take care of it. Right.
Envisioning SuccessCon 50:41
Yeah, no, I did. The first one was great. And, and truthfully, kind of, like you said, you know, after it was all over, you know, I just kind of breathed this huge sigh of relief. You know, I was like, wow, the people actually came, the partner supported, it all worked out. It was amazing. I just felt like so blessed. so grateful for the community, just as overwhelming sense of gratitude. And so I was all amped to do it again. The second year, though, actually, that was earlier this year. Afterwards, I wasn’t sure if we were going to do it again, probably because it’s just a lot of work. And it doesn’t generate a whole lot of revenue. So I look at it from that standpoint, it’s, it’s just not worth doing. It really isn’t. But the thing that has changed since then is, you know, our agency is now operating at a really, really good level, without my involvement a whole lot. So a really good VP of operations, who’s running, running the company, really most of it anyways, I’m still doing the marketing, but he’s running everything. And so I’ve got some free time to work on success con, I’ve spun success con off as a separate entity, a separate business entity. And we’re kind of re envisioning the way success con is going to operate to make it more profitable and more valuable for the people that come. So two things were changing there. One is we’re making it an industry event, not just Infusionsoft. So it’ll be small business marketing automation, Infusionsoft entrepreneur, Active Campaign, etc, is kind of the the vision as well as the breakouts, instead of them just being lots of speakers getting up and sharing stuff, which has been great in the past, we’re going to make them a little more actionable, a little more workshop style thing. Maybe if you want to build a webinar campaign go in this room, they’re going to go build it right now in Active Campaign or in Infusionsoft or whatever, right, if you want to build a lead magnet campaign, then go in this room, and you’re gonna do that over there. So it’s gonna be more like action taking and doing that kind of thing. And also more time for networking, which has been the request last two years in a row is like, Hey, we just want more time to hang out together and learn and all that kind of stuff. So we’re making some of those changes based on what people have requested. And I’m super excited about it.
The focus right now is to do less 55:09
The one thing that I’ve always wanted to do that I’ve never done? That’s a really good question, I tend to do the things that I want to do. And that that that’s not always a good thing. So I tend to spin up a lot of ideas. That’s why we’ve got a membership site and an event and services and products and all these different things. And that creates a bit of confusion in the marketplace. Right. So lately, what we’ve been trying to do is actually simplifying, consolidate all of that stuff into very simple options. Like I said, those four levels that we talked about earlier that people can come in at. And and that’s it. So instead of trying to do more, I’m trying to do less. That’s where the focus right now is to do less, maybe that’s the thing I’ve always wanted to do that I never did is do less. Right. always done more. I’ve always done too many things spin up too many ideas.
I love Infusionsoft 58:00
So for free information just go to I love Infusionsoft. com If you’re an infusion, soft user, go to I love infusionsoft.com you can opt in there and you can follow the I love infusion soft profile on Instagram and Facebook. We’re putting out like three videos a week, just like little Infusionsoft tips and things like that stuff is going to make your life a lot easier. So that’s one way to get some great free information. If you’re interested in working with us, then go to box up marketing. com and you can request a strategy session there.
Shoan 58:27
Awesome. Well, I want to thank you again once again for showing up and we got Tyler gardens. The original Infusionsoft MIT Ninja, actually dubbed that by the CEO and founder clay mask, who I’m sure he has a high regard and respect for you, especially to say something like that. I mean, for you to take the business infusion soft from a few employees to hundreds employees using Infusionsoft. I mean, anybody knows Infusionsoft inside and out and is ninja about it. I’m sure you know things about that software that other people have an inkling of where you go really in depth. So again, I want to thank you for showing up. And we’ll see you at success. com.
Tyler Garns 59:18
All right, thank you Shoan. Appreciate it.
Shoan 59:21
Thanks Tyler will talk
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